These are the date of births of people in the same family suffered with kidney stones
- 24 Nov 1952 father
- 11 September 1977- son
- 8 May 1980 - son
I am unable to get the time of birth, as they do not know.
I wish to understand how to come to a conculsion from their BaZi chart that they have the histroy of kidney stones
I request the readers to submit the DOB of the people with kidney stones.
Thanks in advacne
Reply from Song
My 2 cents worth
What I understand is kidney is related to Ying water.
The bazi chart is either too cold and wet or too hot and dry or the ying water is very weak and under attack.
I don’t know if this information too easy or too difficult for you. My experience about decoding Bazi with Family Charts; I could see the relationship about their Luck and their Health. GM Raymond Lo had explained in his book very clear. The best way to learn Bazi is to learn from a Family set of Bazi. Of course Traditional Chinese Medicine I could never learn it all, especially in combination with the Destiny Code. Bazi only is already very hard for me to understand. As a friend had told me, if you want to walk you have to learn to crawl first.
The basic Element Theory of Traditional Chinese Medicine.
One Resource, one Output and two Resistance elements create a Harmonic, Exaggerated or Collapse system.
Water system = Kidney
Metal – Resource - Lung
Wood – Output - Liver
Fire – Resistance - Heart
Earth – Resistance – Spleen
Wood system = Liver
Water – Resource – Kidney
Fire – Output – Heart
Earth – Resistance – Spleen
Metal – Resistance – Lung
Fire system= Heart
Wood – Resource – Liver
Earth – Output – Spleen
Water – Resistance – Kidney
Metal – Resistance – Lung
Earth system = Spleen
Fire – Resource – Heart
Metal – Output – Lung
Wood – Resistance – Liver
Water – Resistance – Kidney
Metal System = Lung
Earth - Resource - Spleen
Water - Output - Kidney
Fire - Resistance - Heart
Wood - Resistance - Liver
You could apply this system in 4 Pillars of Destiny. When all Elements and 5 Aspects of life are in Harmony, than there is balance between Resource, Output and both the Resistance.
In Exaggerated form, there will be too much Resource, less Output and the Resistances are too weak to control the main element. In Bazi you could compare with the Day Master is too strong.
In Collapse form, there is no or less Resource, too much Output and the Resistances are too strong. In Bazi you could compare with the Day Master is too Weak.
According to the TC Medicine Kidney Stones could cause by Earth-element (Stones/Salt crystals) in a Water-organ (Kidney).
Theory according to Western Medicine:
Many factors may lead to kidney stones. Men are more commonly affected than women; if you've had kidney stones before you're more likely to get them again and you're more prone if they run in your family. Mendelian inheritance (or Mendelian genetics or Mendelism) is a scientific description of how hereditary characteristics are passed from parent organisms to their offspring; it underlies much of genetics.
Let us decode the Father’s Chart first about his Health and Luck.
Theory of TCM:
You could check two ways: a collapse Kidney or an Exaggerated Spleen. Both have its results for “Stones in Kidney”. A collapse Kidney means that the Kidney is too weak to purify the salts crystals in blood, so the salts (Calcium Oxalate/phosphate) will settle down in the Kidney. An Exaggerated Spleen (Earth) means the Spleen forms too many sugar and salts that it deplete the Kidney. The Kidney cannot handle the overwhelm salts.
Water = Kidney system, born in month Water-season is strong
Metal – Resource – Lung, although there are two Earth-elements to support the Metal. Those Earth-elements are losing its strength by HS Yang Wood and Yang Water. Thereby there is a Clash; the Qi-flow of Earth-element has been blocked.
Wood – Output – Liver, is weak in the beginning of the Water-season, still too cold and too wet. Thereby Wood is not in Harmony with the EB Yang Earth.
Fire – Resistance – Heart, in the main Pillars there are hardly Fire-elements. Thereby Fire in beginning of Water-season weak. So the resistance is weak.
Earth – Resistance – Spleen, although the Earth-elements were activated by a Clash, but it has loosened its strength by Yang Water and Yang Wood in the HS.
If you read this than your and my conclusions are: nothing is wrong with the Kidney. The kidney is still strong, and why he had Kidney stones?
Look now closer at his 10 year Luck Pillar. During his 44-54 yo, he is in his Luck Pillar Dragon. His internal Clash, where the Earth Qi-flow had been blocked; now another Clash comes into play, a double Clash double Earth-elements had been activated. Dragon Pillar is end of the Wood-season, the Wood-elements and Water-elements are loosing their strength. Wood is his Liver-Output and Water is his Kidney. 10 year Luck Yang Fire/Yang Earth is the Earth-element very strong. The Liver cannot control the Spleen; it turns into an Exaggerated Spleen.
In combination of weak Output and weak Kidney, with very strong Spleen-Earth, more salts had been formed and less output. The kidney cannot purify all the salts; thereby the father had kidney stones problems during this period.
How about the next Luck period? He had already an Internal Earth-Clash, now combine with another Clash between his Heart (Fire) and Water (Blood). I do not expect good Health news for him, now and the next ten years.
How could he improve his Health? A double clash is not easy to bring it to Harmony. What he could do is, eat less salt and fat, drink more water, eat more bitter cucumber, and eat less chili. With other words, discipline in his diet. Eat more vegetables to increase his Liver-strength and controls his Spleen. An exaggerated Spleen will harden his blood vessels; he could take extra vitamins like Omega 3 fish oil. Fresh Air means increasing Metal-Lung his output.
The next ten years he should focus on his Heart, a weak Kidney could not cool down his Heart. Fire and Water Clash is not innocent, yearly Health-check is highly recommended.
According to the Western Medical theory of Mendel Heritage Illness one of his children must have such kind of Health-issue. Let’s us decode together if we could find a transfer of “Luck/Health” through the Destiny Code.
Son: 8 May 1980
Day: Yin Metal / Yin Fire: Snake
Month: Yin Metal / Yin Fire: Snake
Year: Yang Metal / Yang Metal: Monkey
29-39 yo: Yang Wood / Yang Metal : Monkey
If you look at the chart, you could see only two Elements Chart, Fire and Metal elements. This type of chart asks for problems, especially Health/Luck-problems.
What kind of person is his son? I try with basic of TC Medicine to find out more about him.
He is a Metal Type (Metal in majority), when a Metal type is Exaggerated, Perfectionism, Authoritarianism, and Dogmatism will replace flexibility, self-discipline and critical thinking. With other words, this person lives always under stress and could be very hard to handle. He could be a Military Officer or a Gangster.
Persistence of his internal stiffening can also trigger a Collapse into internal Disorder: a decay of personal values and self-definition: mentally unstable.
Looking at his chart, if he is living in a poverty environment, he could be dangerous and unstable. With this kind of pressure chart, he could join the Army.
Why dangerous? Inner resolve is replaced by reliance upon outer constraints. Unable to adapt to changing circumstances, plagued by disappointment and SORROW, he will vacillate between credulousness and morbid cynicism as he reaches for external answers for internal doubts and GRIEF. It is an irony that the Metal type, without substantial definition, bewildered by internal forces and grasping at external rules to anchor his reason.
Metal and Fire are both Resistance Elements for each other. Without the information of Gautam I do expect his Health-issue in the 10 year Luck pillar between 49-59 yo.
According to Gautam his son had also suffered Kidney stones during his Luck period 29-39 the Wood Monkey-Pillar. During this period a double Snake with a double Monkey form together a combo/destruction had triggered his Health-issue.
The reason why his son had suffered Health-issue at young age is that the Overwhelm Pressure between Fire (Heart) and Metal (Lung) had depleted all other organs network too fast. There is no Harmony of Qi-flow in his body and organs.
Let us look closer at his chart. During his Health-issue period is the Metal-element is clashing with the Wood-element. Wood had no chance to survive. In his chart there is hardly Wood-element. Wood (Liver) is very weak due to surrounding by Metal and Fire in his chart. Wood-element is so important for Water-element (Kidney) for its “Output”, the purification of Salts (Calcium Oxalate/Phosphate). Due to lack of purification the salts will settle down very fast.
Water – Kidney system
Wood – Output – Liver: Very weak
Metal – Resource – Lung - Strong
Fire – Resistance – Heart – Strong
Earth – Resistance – Spleen – Potential strong
Metal (Lung) controls the Wood (Liver), there is no “Ouput” for Water (Kidney). Resource keeps coming in; the Kidney will be depleted, because there is no “Output”. The other problem is that the Heart (Fire) will support the Spleen (Earth). Earth-element as we could see in his father’s charts the destroyer of the Water-element (Kidney).
How about his Health-future? His 10 year Luck pillars is going in the direction of the Metal-season, the destroyer of his Wood. Mentally he will be exhausted and could be dangerous during these periods. No Output is like a balloon is going to blow up one day. Of course his Time of Birth is missing, but the overwhelm Metal and Fire are hard to Balance it with his Time of Birth elements.
My recommendation is that he must better not smoke cigarettes. He will burn his Lung at young age, in the worst case: Lung Cancer.
Western Medical Mendel Theory against the TC Medicine theory and Destiny Code, coincidence?
This is just a beginning, the theory about ‘I Ching”-Code against DNA-Code is more fascinating.
Without your information I probably cannot decode that this man have Kidney stones Illness. I do expect looking at his chart that he will have Health-issues. He had three Pillars in Yin-form and three/two elements chart. In health is the same as Bazi reading, all the 5 Aspects of life needs to be in Balance. Beside his health-issue this man is luckier in life than his younger brother. When he was born, his family was still happy with him. The problem will occur when the second son was coming, you could see in the Month-pillar of the younger son, Yin Metal/Yin Fire. Their mother’s DOB is missing, but I do expect that the relationship between their parents are not good, a change of separation is high. Their father is in the period that the 10 Luck-pillar Dragon that clash away their mother, his wife. With this information I could conclude that the Luck of their mother is also not so good, the same as her health. The theory of Western Medicine Mendel could apply here as well.
Let’s us take a look with the Traditional Chinese Medicine, if we could extract more information about the second son, his health-issue.
Coincidence his other brother had also health-issue at very young age.
Again: the basic theory of the TC Medicine: One Resource, One Output and two Resistances: Harmonic, Exaggerated and Collapse Formation.
Water – Kidney system
Metal – Resource – Lung
Wood – Output – Liver
Fire – Resistance – Heart
Earth – Resistance – Spleen
In TC Medicine we discuss not only an Organ as an Element, but more as a Network of organs. For example Water is a Kidney-network includes a Kidney-organ. At later stage I will go deeper in the theory.
He is a Yin Metal as DM, his Chart is strong Metal-element, with Earth-elements support his Metal. Like his brother he is in the Luck-pillar of Fire-season Snake with Wood supports Fire, makes Fire stronger. During this period his Wood, the “Output” of his Water (Kidney) is very weak according to the 12 cycles of life of the Elements and their seasons. There is lot of pressure in the Kidney, too many salts (Calcium Oxalate/Phosphate) were formed, and the Kidney cannot purify them all. There is hardly Output, because the Wood is very weak. Thereby Fire will support the Earth-element, the destroyer of the Kidney. Kidney stones health-issues are a fact.
How does his health-Luck in long term?
Although he has a Balanced 3 pillars, means Heavenly Stem support their Earthly Branches, makes him a stable person in personality. He is a little bit silent-type, a Yin type. To improve his health, he needs more “Yang” in his life to balance his Internal Organs and health. In an internal body, Yang activity is necessary to circulate the Qi-flow of the Internal Energy of the organs. This is called; there is no Yang within Yin, means a Yin-organ with no Yang activity according to the TC Medicine. He needs lot of Yang Water in his life, like drink more water and live near the River for example or near the swimming pool to absorb the Water-energy. An example of “Yang” activity is do exercises, eating vegetables and visiting often Bamboo-park to absorb yang Wood-energy to increase his Liver-Power, the Output for his Kidney.
41-51 yo his health will improve more and his Luck and Wealth will also improve too. I think he will have more Luck than his younger brother. Of course at later Age, it depends all of their Time of Birth. In my experiences with Family decoding, I think that the older son will be happier and luckier than his brother.
The best way to learn Bazi is learning from Family-bazi is my experience. I do recommend others to do the same. In a Family Chart you could see more about their Luck/Wealth and their Health-history.
If I could know which protein of the mRNA string had cause the Kidney Stone illness, I could use the I Ching to compare it.
I am proud of you. It is an excellent decoding to reach the problem who faced with kidney stones. It is taking time for me in collecting the data .
You said you could use I ching to compare it, Is it like you derive hexagram for year, month and day and reach for an conclusion. That's great.
After my repeated request with the Doctor, this is the information I got,
- The father born on 24-dec-1952 at the age of 48 yrs he had the problem of kidney stones.
- The son born on 11 - sep 1977 at the age of 25 Yrs, that is in the year 2002, had suffered with kidney stones.
- The 2nd son born on 08- May 1980, has been diagonised with presence of kidney stones, this year 2011, month and date were not given.
I tried asking for other information of mother, but no use, The doctor has given me this information because, the homeopathy doctor collects their previous medical history. He said their is no westren medician to treat kidney stones expect removing by surgey / blasting the stones to a tiney frangments and getting extreted through urine. The best is the aurvedic medican.
I was expecting the question, so before reading your question, I have requested the doctor if he can provide me the information of month and year, they have been diagonised with kidney stones. It has taken time for him to give me the data. Now I am more clear when collecting the information I need to collect the time frame too.
The health-issue of the Kidney stones is not an one On/Off Illness or in particular year. It does surprise me that they are quite young to have it.
One thing I do worry about some Health-Illness, in Bazi we could see that. How could you convince the doctor that after 5-10 year someone will have very Bad Health. He will say, come after 10 year back. Than it is already too late, sometimes I see things. It is better not to scare them and let them worry for the next ten years. Let's the doctor tell them after 10 years.
That's why I do stimulate people to study their own chart and not that we tell them what their future will be regarding their health.
It is really difficult to answer your points. But to my imagination, with kidney stones the doctorr does not garrenty further formation of kidney stoens or what ever the illness that may occure in future. The westren medican is cure for the present situation of illness. You know that many westren doctors too accept the Aurvedic ( medicain from plants and less harmful ) a better option. With Bazi and medician is truly an amazing. I appriciate your thinking process.
The problem is that many of the people do not have their date of births to predict their health to future. may be the solution for this is Face reading !.
one more date of birth is my younger brother 17 Feb 1971, 9.30 Am, ( approximate time), He had the hisstory of kidney stones He had in 2004 or 2005, prior to that in 1995.
My thinking process is improving whe I have a conversation with you Saphora. Thanks a lot.
I request you to correct the following in the chart
Snake Si - it has to be as Yang Fire, but it the chart it is as Yin fire.
Rat is Yin water, in the chart it is Yang water.
Horse is Yin Fire, in the chart it is Yang Fire.
I would to thank you to check the charts, sometimes I just rely on the charts on line. I do check my own software, later on I will send you a copy of it, and it is made in Excel-sheet according to the formula of Derek Waters, my book’s teacher. Sometimes I double check it JY on Line’s Calculations, because I like the Chinese signs and its hidden stems. LT on line’s calculations they didn’t have the hidden stems long ago, I don’t know if it had been changed.
It is quite sensitive to reveal charts of your own family. I never have the chance to decode my brothers and sisters, because their DOB could be wrong. I let out the time of birth of your brother, because time is never correct and with time correction I only have hot discussions about it.
Every time you give me another chart, it means for me another difficult challenge to decode it. TC Medicine combines with Western Medicine and Destiny Code is not easy.
Male 3: DOB: 17 February 1971
If it is your Family, my next reply I will decode differently about their Future, more positive side. I know how it feels when it is your Family, Family first and friends last. I will send it to your Private Mail.
Back to the basic TC Medicine theory: One resource, one Output and two resistances.
Water – Kidney network
Metal – Resource – Lung
Wood – Output – Liver
Fire – Resistance – Heart
Earth – Resistance – Spleen
Although Wood-element is full in life in Wood-season, it is not weak. Look in his chart, Wood is surrounded by Metal and Water-elements. Metal supports Water makes Water-elements only stronger. Thereby in the month-pillar HS Metal destroys EB Wood, it means when he was born his parents are not in Harmony. Wood is hereby losing its strength. One of the weakest Wood-season is the Metal-Wood season, "Metal" is cold and windy Wood-season.
As we could see in Son 2 the Wood-element is very important for the Output – Liver. Too much Water makes his chart “Cold” and “Wet”, Wood is struggled to survive.
Unfortunately his 10 year Luck pillar didn’t support him at all. Water is getting only stronger makes his chart unbalance. It is still in the Water-season (Pig-pillar), cold and wet. Wood is again struggled to survive. His body is at that moment not in Harmony. His Kidney is overloaded and is in the fase “Exaggerated”. It will take sometime that he will come into a much warmer period. Cold and Wet mean that there is hardly Fire to control the Metal, so the Metal-element has free shift to the Water-energy, makes Water only stronger.
To balance his chart is the same as son 2, increasing Wood and Yang-energy. This male is probably a “Genius”, an Academic Person. He is very intelligent and smart. His desire for Warmth and Passion to balance his life; this is what he must need.
Luckily in India is not cold; I think he is living in South-India.
Again the good news, he is a Genius, Intelligent and Smart. My advice: think less, have the courage to take more actions and risks.
You and your skill to decode the health is Great.
Thanks once again for taking pains to decode my brother's chart. before posting his date of birth, I have felt it to be personaly for you. but later on understood , that I already posted his DoB in bazi and sucide artical. Please do make further information personaly.
yes , he is clever, and presently staying in south india. In many asspects I am his guide. His accademic carear is not good. This can be identifyed with the too many resource elements ( metal) makes the person Lazy, The laziness to output element Jia, Hence he has a poor education as he 14 -23 LP. correct me if Iam wrong.
By the way, what elements refer to skin diseases? and how do we refer to the parts of the body?
Indeed he is lazy, that’s why I recommend taking more Actions.
A Possible Skin Disease is from an example of Son 2: DOB: 8 May 1980.
There are two possibilities: Lung Disease or Skin diseases, both are related to each other.
If that person is in your Family, I recommend strongly supporting him with his health.
Skin is like a Lung, it breathe through the skin-layer. When it is under attack, it will be destroyed by Heat and Fire. He needs Water to cool it down, no smoking and drink lots of water, especially in warm country like South-India.
First I would to thank you reply this topic. Now I know a bit more about Chennai.
It is nice to know more about different Cities in the World.
The reason why I often need more information about their Parent’s chart is to confirm their correctness of their Date of Births.
You are still young to have Stones in the Kidney; it must caused by different lifestyles or through heritage. In India is in general hot in summer period, lots of transpirations. Less of Water intake will cause tensions in the Kidney and Stones will easily saturate in the Kidney.
My worries about your father’s health is in 2008, 2009. It is normal that a person at that age is having health issues. Could you give more information about his health is 2008 and 2009, any visits to the hospitals?
Your father was a charming person; many women were attracting to him. A person who could have an own business dealing with many people. He had to deal with many pressure in his life, which his health was suffering during those tension period.
Like in other topic I have mentioned that you are still young to have stones in the Kidney.
Now look at your chart:
In Bazi they refer your chart to a “Follow the Leader Chart”. It took your DM as a reference point, Yin Water.
In Traditional Chinese Medicine it refers to a complete chart and their elements. Your time pillar is unavailable; I have to adjust my comments.
Even though the Hour-pillar is unavailable you could estimate how your final Chart will be, your father’s chart could give me additional information.
Yin Water Day Master refers to the Kidney Network system. I can not say that you Kidney network system is dead according to the “Follow the Leader Chart”. It is indeed very weak. According to this Theory it is not good to revive your Kidney system. The problem is that you had to face 60 years of Water and Metal influences. It means you are doomed through your life. I do have different opinions about this Theory.
All your Water elements were absorbed by other exhausted elements. Even though your chart was support by the Hour pillar, your Water is still weak.
According to the Bazi Theory they said if you support your Kidney a water element, it is bad. If you say that to the Doctor, I would think he declare you crazy.
Let’s us look together at your chart in more details.
You are born in Fire Yin (Tiger) where Spring is almost reaching its peak. Wood is enough dry to support the HS Fire, so Fire is strong due to support of Wood.
Your Year pillar is in still in Fire season. I already conclude that your two strong main pillars are under influence of Fire element. Fire and Earth are dominating your Chart.
It means dryness in your body is dominating your Chart. It also means you were dependent to your Boss or other people.
During your 30-40 years old you are under influence of Strong Earth combination.
Your Health could be triggered in 2009 especially in July 2009, where Earth element has reached its peak and very strong. Your Kidney could be overwhelm by this Earth elements and due to stress had triggered your health for Kidney issues.
As a person you are very stable person in mind and in words. Someone you could rely on, I can trust you blindly.
During your 30-40 years old, there is a Combine with your DM and 10 year Luck period. It could mean you were released from all the pressures and be on your own, like migrating overseas or being independently from your family starting an own business.
If you were independent to your boss or business, than it is good period to come. Your health will improve too.